GEA Mail List

Use publicly defined non proprietary formats. The mail list uses computers & net connectivity supplied to promote BSD. Do not use them to post or advertise inimicable proprietary formats (EG Microsoft .Doc & .Exe formats etc).

Queries

Technical queries regarding Email & Web to Julian Stacey.

Event queries to organisers (listed on the programme ) or to the committee.

The info below has not been reviewed / changed / merged etc since the robot was introduced years ago.

Use the Robot

Why there are two GEA lists, not one:

Julian's list: gea@berklix... (previously gea@jhs...) - The original GEA list, - Started as a beer garden alert list, evolved to be the GEA list used by all; reverted to largely beer gardens, skiing & other urgent events. - Not moderated/censored, no humans involved, no one controls content. - All (inc. you!) can post direct to list (So do Not put address on web pages, to avoid spammers collecting address). - Relays instantly from a Munich based Internet server on line 24/7. - No adverts inserted by this list. - Not promoted by committee, just promoted verbally by GEA membership. - Several sections to this list: with & without inclusion of stuff from Lawrence/Hilary (alias Hilary (alias Sunny))'s list, & extra-private-names section. - To change your address etc, long term, mail the robot majordomo@berklix... (which forwards to me for now, till configured). Ensure you guote list name gea, else your request will fail. A manual for majordomo is available here. Lawrence/Hilary (alias Hilary (alias Sunny))'s list: gea@yahoo - Originates the monthly programme. - Named on the printed programme, promoted by Lawrence, Hilary (alias Sunny) etc. - Sometimes known by new people as the `official' list. - `Moderated' (IE censored) by Lawrence/Hilary (alias Sunny) etc, no mail they don't like. - Operated by a commercial American firm which inserts adverts into email (no idea if they sell addresses to 3rd parties, but I distrust egroups after mail interchange with staff). - Routes through America (look at the headers). - Started by Hilary (alias Sunny) & Lawrence, supported by their "nacht & nebel" copying of names from Julian's list without permission of individuals (or J), (which caused a mass of email duplicates, & wasted much time). The 2 lists have largely the same common membership, but a few people are on one & not the other, ask the individuals concerned if in doubt.

New List

27 May 2002
This only applies to GMX.DE & Hotmail users, the rest can delete unread !

Owen reported that a mail "Paul McVeigh" p_mcveigh@hot...
sent was bouncing (mail appended).

As said before:
- GMX chooses to reject mail from hotmail coming via 3rd parties,
  in this context list gea@berklix is an innocent 3rd party.
- Hotmail is infested by spammers, so GMX action is possibly understandable.
- Operators of both Hotmail & GMX are paid to deal with this problem,
- I'm not paid to deal with it, & so won't waste my time on their problem.
- I have a long term plan to solve this, but no time to implement it now.
- Meantime if any hotmail user wants to mail gea@berklix
  either get a non hotmail friend to relay it to list gea@berklix
  or be aware GMX subscribers will not receive it.
- Again, sorry, but I have no time to solve problems that belong to
  GMX & Hotmail & that they are _paid_ to solve.


> <<< 550 {mx032-rz3} The recipient does not accept mails from 'hotmail.com'
> over foreign mailservers

-----------
> The German-English Association is 20 years young this year and we\xb4re
> planning a great party to celebrate our birthday.

                            Jan 2002
Hi folks on gea@berklix
This only applies to GMX.DE & Hotmail users, the rest can delete unread !

gmx.de complained & bounced mail like this:
        550 {mx032-rz3} The recipient does not accept mails from
         'hotmail.com' over foreign mailservers          User unknown
to a posting Richard Gipps sent from a Hotmail account.

Likely Gmx will reject future mail forwarded by gea@berklix
from Hotmail users !  I guess GMX is tired of the many spammers
Hotmail has tolerated in the past.  (Richard is not a spammer, but
got caught in the trap Gmx set for all Hotmailers.)

Action you may wish to take might include any or none of these:
        - Mail postmaster@hotmail.com & complain
        - Mail postmaster@gmx.de & complain
        - Hope all GEA hotmail senders abandon sending from Hotmail.
        - Hope all GEA Gmx recipients abandon receiving Gmx
        - Do nothing & miss valid GEA non spam mail from Hotmail.

Not nice realistic options are they ?

It's a fight between Gmx & Hotmail.  Later I may configure
gea@berklix to hide from Gmx the fact that it's a Hotmail
sender, but I'm too busy at present.

I'm appending Richard's mail below, but I don't plan to
hand forward future mail from Hotmail that Gmx chooses to bounce.


From:   Julian Stacey
Sent:   Wednesday, December 29, 1999 3:49 AM
To: xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com
Subject:    A faster GEA mail list.

GEA People,
As Before:
  List xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc automatically forwards your postings to GEA people
  (without my reading them first), but postings only start forwarding each
  time my computer goes on line, so there is a delay, more noticeably so if
  I am busy/away/ill etc.

New:
  List xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc has been largely(*) cloned to list xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com>
  which is permanently connected to the Internet, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Why Post GEA Stuff To xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> ?
- It should relay quicker than any other mail list we know of:
  it is in Munich (not USA), on an unloaded machine.
- It is Not censored - posted announcements are not delayed waiting for a
  `moderator' to approve/change/merge your postings.
- Readers can be sure content is not controlled (or supressed) by anyone,
  as relaying is automatic & instant, no human involved.
- It is not run by a company who might want to harvest your names for
  commercial purposes.
- Mail forwarded will Not have adverts appended.
- Names of subscribers are Not available to any group of committee members,
  or any other GEA person except me, so your privacy is maximal.

Each summer xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc was used for announcing short notice GEA beer
gardens etc,  but right now perhaps xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> could be particularly
useful for convening short notice mini ski groups;  but post to
xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> whatever you think others will consider appropriate.
It should be relevant to GEA members, but need Not comply with any real or
imagined `official' view.  If you see inappropriate postings please complain
straight to sender, not to list xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com>, or to me jhs@_ERASE_various...

To avoid spam, please do Not put name xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> on web page etc.
(else I will need to move list to a new name if we get spammed).

(*) I say `largely' cloned, above, as people on the private subset of list
xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc have not had their names copied to xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> as I have
not (yet) asked their permission;  Consequently, postings to them will still
relay through jhs.muc (with usual delay);  Also stuff relayed from the
other "moderated" list still goes through jhs.muc with a delay.

Only postings sent direct to xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> will be relayed super fast;
give it a try, (the GEA programme is pretty empty the next week or so, so if
you want to rope in some people at short notice, & do not want to wait for a
"moderator" to aprove your mail, post to xxx@berklix._ERASE_.com> ).

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:01:22 GMT
To: xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc
Subject: Answers
From: Julian Stacey jhs@_ERASE_jhs.muc

Hi GEA people,
Ref. postings on GEA list xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc last few day or 2:

SPAM (as reported by Holger):
  I have never given or sold my GEA mail lists to anyone, but as reported,
  a mass piracy of the headers recently occured, so a commercial company now
  has most of your names, & they might sooner or later sell or use
  their knowledge of your address. Unfortunately 2 leading committee
  members are obdurate on the piracy, & I can only suggest individuals
  who do not want their names to continue without their consent on the new
  list, take individual measures to have themselves deleted.

There were some emails recently through xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc from GEA people,
that weren't tightly GEA focused (& "mea culpa" at least partially Re commets
:-) , I don't know if Holger is thinking of those, but to clarify :-

xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc
  This list is available for GEA people to send to if you have announcements
  relevant to the GEA, or a largish subset thereof.
  The list is automatically relayed, (without anyone editing the content :-).
  If/when any spammer company should get hold of this list name, I'll simply
  change the name, to block them, no company will get your ndividual names.
  Postings on xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc are not archived (AFAIK), on any web site mail
  archives, thus preventing easy trawling for names by spammer companies
  (& please no one do this without getting agreement from people on this list).
  If you feel an item on the list is not relevant to the list, please complain
  direct to the sender (not via me, & not copied to the list, Thanks).

daemon@_ERASE_jhs.muc
  This address is result of a temporary measure to prevent a second piracy
  of addresses (admittedly largely shutting the stable door after).
  The address & the ugly bundled headers will disappear as soon as I have time
  to complete re-configuration.

The blank emails:
  Someone connected an autoreplier to their mail address, her address has been
  temporarily blocked to stop the noise.

Personal mail:
    jhs@_ERASE__various_ is for personal mail to me, Julian.
    xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc is for GEA postings
Please ensure mail is seperated & sent appropriately.

Silence:
  I'm very happy to see appropriate use of the list (you can define
  `appropriate', not me :-)   But please ...  The less time I need to spend
  answering queries/requests/clarifying this stuff,
  the sooner I can complete the reconfiguration, add a bunch of new facilities,
  create new low traffic & or sub-group lists, pretty much anything/
  everything various people requestc ... but for that I need to spend time
  at the computer configuring, not answering a backlog of mail, so Please be
  patient, & try to avoid mailing me Re. this list, until the
  reconfiguration is announced as done. Thanks :-)

Julian

-------------------------
To: jhs
bcc: gea
Subject: xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc remains in operation, uncensored, for you to post on.

GEA People,
xxx@_ERASE_jhs.muc  remains available for anyone to post to, with automatic
forwarding, & No prior review by anyone (it just flows through my machine,
& gets automatically distributed, merely including a copy for me to read later.
It is the product of my effort over several years, so now the duplicate feed
is cut, I have restored this list to aprox what it was a week or so ago.
As the flood of change requests is now obsolete, I'm now freezing the
subscription list for a few days, to get time to automate the subscribtion
process, & will announce as soon as it's available for those who might want
to make changes.
Please continue to use it for whatever GEA purposes you want, unimpeded by any
committee (or my) censorship :-).  Maybe the choice will work out a bit like
an independent versus Pravda ;-)  But best to minimise repetion between lists.
Once subscription is further automated it can be shifted to a 24/7 system
for higher speed (& still remain safe from commercial site spam collectors)

Lawrence has made his  gea@_ERASE_egroups.com  "moderated", that's "censored" in
real English !  In contravention of Internet norms, he failed to invite debate
before doing so.  It is mostly composed of names pirated from my list without
my or the many individuals' permission.  Following the Flugwerft deception,
it does not give me great faith in the censor.
If you were one of the many hijacked onto Lawrence's list, & want to dump it
you can mail him on  lawrence.jones@_ERASE_bt.com or do it via your web browser at
http://www.eGroups.com/list/gea  apparently.

I hope you will want to continue to use the un-censored list where possible,
though some will no doubt prefer a "moderated" list.  I plan to only make
ski/beer/cycle/surf etc announcements on the uncensored list - of course :-)
Amsuingly, 2 lists also gives us some fallback, in case either fails sometime,
so there's some good from this fiasco :-).

PS
I also continue to relay to a private shielded class of GEA members, who for
various reasons don't want their names seen by anyone, even other GEA members,
but this relaying is still done by hand & I've missed a few this week,
apologies to those concerned, that too I will automate.

Julian

1998.09.21
Subject: GEA Mail List

GEA People,
It's been a lot of work building, feeding & maintaining the mail list,
which today numbers an amazing 104 people ! (just counted).
I had been intending to upgrade the list to add more facilities,
but couldn't spare the time yet, & apparently the committee would like
to take over, so I'll help the transition as follows:

    A) I will subscribe my list name as a recipient of their new list.
    B) Members of my list will then automatically get the info sent to the
       new list-in-the-making. People can then at their leisure,
       individually subscribe the new list, & later unsubscribe mine,
       once the new one is proven OK.
    C) Those on my list who either:
        - want to maintain their privacy, or
        - who can't be bothered changing (at least yet),
       can stay on my list, & get the same info (but delayed a bit).
    D) I will try to send my future announcements to the new list so that
       all members of both lists get the info.  (& of course others can
       post direct to the new list, saving them & me time).
    E) I am not responsible in Any way for the new list, if you join it
       _Please_ do Not mail me Any questions about how to use it etc, it's
       the responsibility of those committee who want to promote its use,
       & yours if you choose to use it, Don't call/write me !

You might think it would be easiest for me to simply hand over a list of
everyone on my mail list, to the new list manager, but I can not do that as
I have been requested to maintain confidentiality for a number of addresses
& can't remember who all the people are.
It's your individual choice, if you want to change, do so, if not, do not.

Some advantages to the new list:
    - It will be a permanently connected internet site, so should relay
      `instantly' rather than merely queueing, pending when my site
      connects.  (I could have programmed my site to periodically auto
      connect & relay, but that would have cost me money).
    - It will be a 2 way list. ( I always had this capability too, but
      inhibited it to be surer of maintaining privacy for the minority
      who don't want their name seen.)
    - It will be `robot driven' ie a simple "subscribe" script
      (I installed this functionality too (via `majordomo'), but didn't
      have leisure time to configure it)
    - I will not have to spend time being involved :-)

Some disadvantages:
    - It will be run on the computers of a commercial company who are out
      to make money, one way or another, so expect some advertising coming
      your way some time, & pray they don't sell copies of their list !
    - If you subscribe as a name other than the name you use to send mail
      with, your posts to the new list will probably `bounce'.

What you _Need_ to do:
    Absolutely nothing !  I will subscribe my list name as a member of
    the new list, so if you can't be bothered to desubscribe my list
    & subscribe the new list, you need not, for now.

What you _Can_ do:
    Subscribe the new list; then when you'r happy it's working
    fine, mail me & unsubscribe from mine.

I append a mail from Lawrence (committee member)

==============
From Lawrence.Jones@_ERASE_viaginterkom.de Mon Sep 21 22:26:54 1998
To: "'gea@_ERASE_makelist.com'" gea@_ERASE_makelist.com
Subject: October Programme Deadline and GEA Mailing List
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:25:16 +0200
Return-Receipt-To: "Jones, Lawrence" Lawrence.Jones@_ERASE_viaginterkom.de

Dear GEA Members,

Two points to note. Firstly is that Lawrence is in Paris this week and
Hilary (alias Sunny) will be finishing off the programme.

Any last minute contributions should be sent to gea@_ERASE_bigfoot.de or call
Hilary (alias Sunny) at 7499 5333.

Secondly, I has found a free email service which the GEA can use as an
electronic club bulletin board and means of distributing programme, news
and event changes to those members with email addresses who wish to
participate. Anyone can subscribe to the list by sending an email, or
filling in a form on the GEA website, or responding to this email
invitation which Lawrence will send out to those GEA members and other
interested persons whose email addresses are known.  Anyone who has
subscribed and is therefore a list member can then send a message to
everyone else on the list.

With this system there is a minimum of work  and  a maximum of freedom.
Lawrence, or the email address gea@_ERASE_bigfoot.de (which currently gets sent
to Lawrence, Olaf and Hilary (alias Sunny)) would be list owner, i.e. be able to change
options if necessary. As in most things, it is most effective if one
person is responsible, and one or more others act as backup in case of
absence. Roles can be passed on to others without having to change list
names.

If it turns out that some people use this email list for  sending stuff
which interests themselves but not many others, then we would have a
problem, but also solutions. Either the other members will tell the
illdoers to be  quiet, and succeed, or another, "moderated" list can be
offered which would need an OK from the list owner before inputs could
be sent out.

Your will shortly get a mail asking you to join the list.

Lawrence Jones
GEA Programme Editor
==============

PS I believe new list is subscribable via
    gea-subscribe@_ERASE_makelist.com
Lawrence can give more info when he gets back.

Reminder: No questions on the new system to me please !
all such questions to proponents:
    Lawrence.Jones@_ERASE_viaginterkom.de &/or maybe
    gea@_ERASE_bigfoot.de

Julian

Below is the text that used to feature on this page, before the recent change documented above.

Enrolment

Right now there is just one mail list to cover everything, but very soon there will be multiple lists, served by a mail robot.

To get details of lists, subscribe, unsubscribe, change address, fetch the programme by email server etc, send email to the email robot.

How To Send Occasional Brief Announcements

This is being automated, when done an announcement will be made, & this page changed, meantime send them via Julian Stacey by clicking here.

Problems With Mail Routing / Reception

If you get stuck, as a fallback you can email Julian Stacey by clicking here.

Welcome Message For automatic transmission to new recipients.

THIS SECTION IS NOT FORMATTED TO CONFORM TO MAJORDOMO

Some people, particularly those new to the list &/or GEA tend to think of me
(Julian Stacey jhs@_ERASE_...) as a/the `known point' & refer back to me with
questions, suggestions, messages for the committee, event change announcements
for the Stammtisch, etc.  Please do not email me that stuff ! I don't want it !

Though I run the original GEA web site, & the email announcement list, & some
events, I have not been on the committee for years.  Please do not send general
GEA feedback via me, send it Direct to those concerned:
    The entire committee + phone numbers are listed on the programme:
        http://www.muc .de/~jhs/gea/month/this/
    the web also has committee email addresses:
        http://www.muc .de/~jhs/gea/people.html
    Email to aprox 3 of committee       gea@_ERASE_bigfoot.de
    Email to Programme producer         lawrence.jones@_ERASE_bt.com
    Web pages with a .../~jhs/gea/  in  jhs@...

New GEA list subscribers frequently email me the same old questions, but
I don't have time for that.  It's partly why I created GEA web directory
    http://www.muc .de/~jhs/gea/
so read it first, then if you have questions, go to the Stammtisch & ask for
a committee member, or phone one, but please Don't ask me,
Ask a committee member, that's what they're there for !

If you want something urgently annonunced at the Stammtisch, the procedure is:
phone a committee member, ask who is doing the announcements that week, phone
that committee member, and leave a message.  Do Not email me, it consumes my
time, & incurs delay that often makes the email obsolete anyway !

Non urgent announcements can be relayed to this list: mail it to me, but allow
me a day or 2 to receive it, & allow list membership a further day or 2 to
receive the relayed copy; remember many people only get this list at home,
& don't look more than perhaps a few times a week, if that.

PS:
There's far too many people on the list to tolerate idiosyncracy so:
- Any email address that automatically acknowledges receipt of each
  mail item, is deleted from the list.
- Any email address that `bounces' more than once in succesion gets deleted
  (albeit with a warning, that bounces too usually).
- Anyone who keeps manually writing `Thanks for ...' gets politely told
  it's a list, it's not necessary, & please desist :-)
- Those tedious "I'm away, but your mail has been received" messages try my
  patience, if you know how to turn them off your end please do so.

Thanks for your co-operation,
Julian

--------------
12.2000
Hi Folks,
List    gea@berklix ( with fallback gea@_ERASE_jhs.muc ) is as you may know,
split into several parts, including a subset of people who also until
a while back got a supplementary relay copy of Lawrences's list with
monthly programme etc (because those people did not want their names
known to Lawrence's commercial provider &/or various other GEA people).

A few months back someone (not me) broke the relay, by popular request I've
just fixed it.  You people on the supplementary list, will now again
receive the relay from Lawrence's list.
If you have meantime subscribed his list direct, that's fine, I don't mind,
just Please Tell Me !  jhs@...  I do Not want anyone
receiving duplicates !  Do not be be silent or complain elsewhere, tell me
to cancel your previous inclusion on the supplementary list & I'll do it
ASAP, just let me know.

Note being removed from the supplementary relay does not necessitate being
totally removed from list gea@berklix, it just means being removed from
getting (possibly duplicate) extra stuff from Lawrence's list.

When choosing which list to post info on, you may like to know:
 gea@berklix
        Uncensored, instant relay 24/7, based in Giesing, no human delays or
        controls content, which relays immediately.
 gea@_ERASE_egroups
        lawrence's/committee's `moderated' list, routes through a giant
        company in USA.  Wait for a human to approve/reformat/refuse postings.

Below my signature line === I now append a catch up archive of recent stuff
off lawrence's list. (& Yes I know the Mime enclosure stuff will fail,
sorry but I'm simply too busy to edit it for a one off catch up job).
---------------

German English Association - Mail Lists

A Subscription Robot Runs Here , documented & Explained Here

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