SFD
BSN
Consol
|
|
Index
-
Ski Dates
- Our Dates
2010-2011 & onward we're not publishing much on web.
Join our ski Mail List for
announcements.
2012-2013, 2009-2010, 2008-2009, 2007-2008, 2006-2007, 2005-2006, 2004-2005, 2003-2004, 2002-2003, 2001-2002, 2000-2001
- More Dates Welcome
- Group
 at Mayrhofen
(Finkenberg actually) Austria.
- Author
 (click for
larger)
- Pics: 2001_01_21, 2003_01_19, 2008_01_20, Finken- berg Nord- hang- bahn, 2013 03 Kitzbuehel
panorama
- Why Ski With US ? No Membership
Fees, No Busses, No Smoke, No Data Harvesting
- JOIN OUR FREE MAIL ANNOUNCEMENT
LISTS
- Mayrhofen Ski Trip
Information
- Kitzbuhel Ski Trip
Information
- Conventions EG Petrol, Credit Cards
etc
- Other Trips
-
Ski Organisers
- Booking Form Removed from use
for now, just email us
- Resorts
-
Other Groups
- Other Commercial Bus & Train Trips
etc
- Random Ski Links
- Copyright
- Non Skier's Unsolicited
Opinions
- Disasters Happen ... "Ski Trips From
Hell ?" Not Really
- Disclaimer
- End Of Index
-
We are totally non commercial.
- We take No money from you, except for petrol to
drivers.
- No joining fee, No annual membership, No booking
fee.
- Nothing for tuition (we only do a max. of 1
beginner's trip per year, & that's free, except nice
if you buy advisers a drink if the advice seems
useful.
- Nothing for equipment (hire or buy your own, not via
us, we'll just suggest where)
-
We go by Multiple Private Cars. - Far More Flexible Than
Busses !
- Get out of bed Later no need for a hellish early 06:30 bus
load of 30 to 50 people. No crowded train. We don't rush
to be first in the Autobahn Stau, Leave the locals to
compete at getting up so desperately early they _might_
avoid the jams/ Staus. Typically we meet at 08:00.
- We can go somewhere else if the snow report is
bad.
- We can go somewhere else Sunday if Saturday snow is
bad (obviously we think lift tickets, petrol, time).
- We don't all rush down the mountain to the bus to
rush back to Munich. Some of us stay in the Alps for a
drink (non alcoholic. for drivers) &/or bite to eat
after, or half way home, sometimes at places we've know
for years.
- Sometimes (after we're all off the mountain) we swap
passengers between drivers to better match those who want
to lounge & those who want to rush off.)
- If it suits both driver & passengers, passengers
may be may be dropped off somewhere more mutually
convenient at end of trip.
-
No Data Harvesting
- We don't use web forums or hide behind aliases, no
pseudonyms, we use real human names & email
addresses.
- The Internet domains we
use are NOT owned by commercial companies, will not
be later sold to commercial operators (as at least one
other web forum listed here was). Our domains do Not
harvest your or our email or web traffic or names. The author guarantees
that.
- We do Not try to recruit you by free restricted
membership, with more services for money. (Unlike at
least one site pointed to here).
- Non Smokers Only. Tobacco stinks worse in the cold air.
Having just non smokers make us more attractive to to other
non smokers. We've not had a smoker on a ski trip in a
decade, & don't need the smell or the the headache.
- We can all speak English & usually do. We use
singular Du not plural Sie if/when we speak German to each
other (unless > 2 people), no stiff linguistic baggage
;-)
- We're mostly not new in town, so we've learnt where to
ski. We know a Lot about the areas, & a lot of us have
own cars.
- Our purpose is to SKI, not to Booze (unlike some group(s)
;-) Sure we drink, but not lots, that's best left in Munich,
when not driving skis or cars.
- You'll also find our other
activity mail lists for Snow Walks & Summer flat
& mountain hikes walks, cycle trips, & Err ;-) .. Drinking on Saturdays + occasional bowling
etc
( Web refs to some random resorts. Just random web refs so
far. )
Top Of Page
We already list Fackel Wanderung, as well as all forms of
skiing, but we would be delighted if someone wanted to
organise eg: snow shoe walking, sledging, rodel, ice skating
on { a Munich canal (eg Nymphenburg), lake (eg Maisinger See
SW of Starnberg) or { frozen tennis court by a ski lift - aka
Finkenberg base station) }
Top Of Page
It was suggested I prepare outline How-To notes to encourage
new Ski Organisers, & noted
that organising the accommodation is perhaps the most
interesting area of advice for an inexperienced/ new ski
organiser. Paul has also asked me. Emails/tips from other
experienced Ski Organisers to
fill out this section are welcome, if not received, I may
eventually get round to it myself. Meantime, if you read the
briefing notes for attenders of my annual down hill
for Beginners & Experienced - Mayrhofen trip, you'll
have a good idea of what to do & what to avoid.
Top Of Page
We have a web based ski booking form available for some
trips. Most other trips are still booked direct with Ski Organiser. (When time is found by
Julian he will do
more work automating the back end behind the booking form,
for detail processing, & then offer an extended version
to any others Ski Organisers
who may want it.)
Top Of Page
There's lots of conventions us regular club skiers are used
to, for most just ask the regular club skiers, or the Ski Organiser, Here's a couple of
examples:
- We very rarely go to hotels that accept credit cards -
bring Cash ! - All the other passengers in the car haven't
got any interest in going to a more expensive hotel or
restaurant, & all paying a lot more, just so's you can
use your credit card, (even if we could find somewhere to
take a card) so Bring Enough Cash.
- Petrol money: we normally aim to fill standard cars
with 4 people, & leave the 3 passengers to pay all
petrol, leaving driver to incur depreciation (think salt
water corrosion & heavy engine wear on mountains etc),
that way we help encourage sufficient drivers to suffer the
corrosive salted & gritted winter roads, &
increased risk of collision etc. If the driver has not
bought rack & chains, passengers sometimes deduct the
price of a beer from petrol money, & buy a beer over
the weekend for the driver who was kind enough to
synchronise his vehicle & squeeze their skis onto his
rack etc, thus encouraging more drivers to invest in rack
& chains.
- We pretty much always stop for a drink after skiing
& don't rush off. The drivers don't booze it up
though.
- Passengers should synchronise with Drivers travel
plans, be back on time from skiing, & not order meals
when rest are planning to leave.
- Drivers co-ordinate plans with their fellow
drivers.
- Passengers are normally head counted after skiing by
their own driver. Drivers make mutual check arrangements
among each other. Passengers of a missing /late driver
should report the missing skier to other drivers.
- We don't come back early to unlock vehicles for non
skiers.
- A meal on the way back to Munich is optional, subject
to driver - depends if stomach demanding food to digest,
plus aching muscles demanding blood to rebuild, may deprive
brain of blood supply to concentrate on driving.
- We probably have other conventions too, which are
easier remembered in the snow fields than typing here in
Munich
Top Of Page
Notes On Rows & Columns In Yearly Calendars
Notes On Columns In Yearly Calendars
-
Type:
- Down=Down hill,
- Tour=Ski Tour,
- Lang=Langlauf=Cross
Country.
- All=All types of skier
welcome.
- Where more than one type, main emphasis is listed
first.
-
Skill:
- Beg=Beginners (ie
including absolute beginners),
- Exp=Experienced.
- Any=Any level of
experience or lack thereof.
- Organiser: Name of
organiser. Click on it for more info.
- Destination: Ski Organisers please tell me
web references(URL) for your Destination Resort, for Ski
Map info etc, & I'll make it click-able from the
table.
- Free/ Commercial
club trips are organised free (but you still have to pay
various lifts & accommodation & petrol etc), but we
also list some Semi Commercial Trips:
Most of Ken's trips
are marked "Semi Commercial". on those the organiser's
prime aim is to teach people skiing, for which he offers a
commercial package, charges money, & bundles in
equipment provision, tuition, accommodation & (I think)
lift pass) A few experienced club skiers sometimes join
those groups without taking the package.
- Comment: Odd extra
info.
Notes On Rows In Yearly Calendars
- A row of dashes '-' (or empty boxes) is a date
available for an Ski
Organiser (unless below a preceeding multi day
trip).
- Trips such as Ken's commercial trips & Peter's
Private trip maybe shown in {{brackets}}.
Top Of Page
- The annual ski planning meal enables us to
optimise/maximise the amount of ski trips available during
the ski season. It was started after we had a dry January one
year: the snow was good, but we fumbled the planning, &
had no down hill weekend for 3 weeks.
- We try to maximise the number of full weekends available
but get lower turnout if we have adjacent full weekends, so
we try to alternate full weekends & day trips on
successive weekends.
- We get fewer weekends if we first ad hoc book the easy to
organise single day trips on any random weekend Ski Organisers bid for; so instead it's
better to try to schedule the 2 day full weekends trips
first, on alternate weekends, & then add the one day
trips in between.
- We try when possible to avoid a full weekend on
Fasching's party weekend; we often do a one day trip then,
Sunday usually.
- The timetable needs to account for Christmas & Easter. EG 1
day trips on weekends when accommodation is hard to find, 2
days (or more) when easy.
- We sometime run 2 trips the same day, EG Langlauf &
down hill, but a few Ski
Organisers do more than one form of skiing, & don't
want to miss out, so sometime we do EG langlauf on Saturday
& down hill on Sunday (or vice versa), rather than 2 1
day & none the other day same weekend.
- Langlauf dates: try: Munich International Ski Club
- We usually (but not always) manage to avoid EG a 1 day
down hill in one resort on the same weekend a 2 day down hill
trip in a different resort.
- We also arrange small groups not officially announced,
often at short notice via eg winterised beer gardeners
& the Skiers
List ).
- This Hanenkamm
date in 2006 clashed with Mayrhofen
trip so might be Traffic jams?.
- Top Of Page
- The schedule used to be organised with identical papers
with dates in front of each Ski
Organiser at the ski planning meal, for bids for dates
& then collated, discussed & dates shuffled to
optimise use of weekends. As that was best typed, & as we
usually know a few requests in advance, it's helpful to list
those too, & as the info will be published on web email
& printed programme later anyway, it's convenient to list
early tentative plans on the web too. Some years Julian just provides a giant
sheet, & all trips are marked up, that system works well
with smaller numbers, but problems of wet table & dark
restaurants. Torch useful ! In 2004 Julian also had a laptop
loaded & ready with the planning table, (which would have
made inserting extra mid week trips in particular, rather
easier, but then paper was used as more easily review-able by
all the group (passing a laptop around among glasses of beer,
& plates of food is problematic.
- Details can be registered on this list by emailing or
phoning Julian.
- These dates are NOT fixed, they're just some initial
wishes of some individual Ski
Organisers & will likely be changed somewhat when Ski Organisers together at &
after the annual Ski Organisers
planning meal, when we optimise the season's schedule.
-
First Come First Served ? - No It's Not That Simple
!
- It is not necessarily first come first served for
this timetable, neither by email bids nor on the planning
night.
- it seems best to optimise the ski timetable to
maximise ski enjoyment & safety etc, for the skiers,
not simply to satisfy whichever Ski Organiser managed to bid first
by email, or managed to arrive on time for the ski
meal.
- Full weekend ski trips in prime snow time (Jan to
mid/late Feb) are considered valuable, not to be messed
up by less than experienced Ski
Organisers, so it's appreciated if newer Ski Organisers to the group first
do one day trips, & smaller 2 day trips out of prime
time, until they've shown the group they have the proven
organisational ability to extend to reliably &
successfully organise large groups in prime snow time.
(There's a lot to get right, or wrong, in a full weekend,
& only a few optimal dates in a short season, so we
can't afford to waste any).
- "First come" might (or not) be OK for langlauf, which
generally is low death/serious injury risk compared to
down hill or ski tour.
- When you get to be standing on a steep mountain,
perhaps teaching down hill beginners how to crash
properly & avoid broken arm/legs etc, or teaching
tourer-s avalanche danger assessment etc, then competence
is more important than who made first claim.
- There's other criteria, equally doubtless skiers will
think of & understand them better than non skiers,
& be more affected by the decisions than non skiers,
so such decisions are best left to skiers !
- It's optimal if we first try to work out from other
constraints, which weekends are best for 1 or 2 day trips,
then Ski Organisers choose
dates available ?
- Like to organise a trip yourself? - Pick a free date above & get advice from other Ski Organisers.
- Date Arbitration/decision etc is by the body of Ski Organisers.
-
Top Of Page
Discussion forum > South Germany > Munich > Sport in
Munich
Top Of Page
Another Group: Richard
Gipps' Ski Tourers group
Click above, then on "Activity Groups -> # Munich -> #
Sports & Leisure -> # Alpine Division -> #
Activities "
You need to pay money for beyond basic info.
Top Of Page
Another Group: Ken Lawler's Short Ski
Beginners Group
http://parallelskiing.com/
http://parallelskiing.ws24.cc
Ken's group is a Verein (club e.v.). There's numerous of our
people there & vice versa. Many good recommendations too,
& he does one open trip, no tuition or charges etc for us
too. Ken's group provides equipment, beginners training,
accommodation & lift tickets for a fee.
Top Of Page
Paraski,
a Yahoo group run by HanZi Field, who took Ken's beginner course in 2102.
HanZi went skiing nearly every weekend and was always looking
for passengers and drivers to go along. Hanzi also does
barbecues in summer, & overlaps with people in our
circles. @2013 Paraski seemed inactive.
Top Of Page
One day trips, weekend, long weekend and week long trips. Email
subscription request to Donna Peavey Day trip cost per
person '04: Members - Eur. 35, Non-members - Eur. 45, Long
trips: February 20 - 24 Kranjska Gora, Slovenia, Italy at
Easter. 3 - 10 April. Madesima resort.
Entry fee of 10 Euro, & Annual Membership of 30 Euro
(when last I looked).
2013 quote: The bus WILL depart at 06:45 so you need to be
there for 06:30
Top Of Page
Railway, bus companies and sport shops offer day trips with
transport maybe breakfast and lift pass built in. They leave
very early in the morning (typically German !) and leave the
resort too early as well, even more typically German ! I've
never tried them, as I aim to arrive at top of mountain with
last lift, maybe admire the view or have a drink, wait for
the crowd to clear off, then ski down & have another
drink & a cake in a cafe/bar. Forget that relaxed idea if
you'r on a commercial German bus.
- Format & Content in whole & in parts, Copyright
Julian Stacey,
Munich 2001-2013.
- Permission granted to make links to this & other
pages.
- Top Of Page
Disasters Happen - Be Prepared
!
Experienced ski Organisers know
things can go wrong, & we try to plan ahead. We also ask
trip participants to also keep thinking ahead too, taking
personal responsibility, & trying to help organiser where
possible. Anticipating the unexpected (& the expected) is
what experienced Ski Organisers
& skiers do, but no matter how hard we plan, something
else may get us ;-) That's not to put you off skiing or
organising, (that too can be fun), just that it's easier when
people Think & Plan ahead too.
"Ski Trips From Hell ?" Not Really
(Good phrase for a search engine to catch more skier
interest though ? ;-)
Here's some problems one Ski
Organiser recalls.
- Road closure from avalanche danger, skiers stranded in
ski boots in bar now closing, no hotels left, no money
& passports for hotels either, cars blocked by locked
barrier from driving through avalanche endangered road to
reach rooms containing normal shoes, clothes, passports,
money & beds for the night.
- Ski drivers & passengers separated, lost from each
other, now on different mountains/valley stations, after
having been separated by lack of visibility, piste closed
by avalanche danger, different speed/ability etc. Lost
skiers & missing drivers, can't stick notes to wind
screens 'cos the snow ice wind sleet rain & dark defeat
paper ink & you, & it's slow walking in ski boots,
& the last bus has gone, & taxis are expensive, or
no racks, or just not available
- Injury - worse if it its the driver! Is the car insured
for other drivers?
- Mugging (Robbery) of party member.
- Broken rib, broken arm reported to the organiser at
breakfast, before 1st coffee, reported by an aggressive
fool
threatening the organiser to beat him up, because
organiser didn't know, wasn't told, & was skiing a
different mountain with a different group from a different
car yesterday, & this is the first he's heard, no one
having reported it earlier, as the injured's friend's took
him to hospital & he's been dealt with & quite
alright (as he assures us later on his return).
- Lack of cars, or passengers for booked cars, lack of
snow chains for glaciers, winter tyres, ski racks,
inadequate anti-freeze, cars doors locked solid, car break
downs,
- Rush to leave car park before dead end glacier tunnel
is locked for the night. No time to get chains on. Road
down is icier than road up (rained & froze during day).
Nothing at all on edge of road. Driver scared car might
slip sideway off edge. 3 passengers pushing car sideways
while driver alone in car drives down! (Solden, before they
put in another lift up to the glacier).
- The odd blizzard perhaps with a group of you on a snow
slope of 45 degrees, a few miles from human habitation,
(skiers car groups are never sorted by ski ability, so ski
groups comprise assorted passengers & drivers belonging
to car groups of skiers elsewhere on same or loosely
adjacent mountains. Visibility about as far as the end of
your ski tip ! Needing to stab sticks in snow to see if
moving/ drifting. Curious sensory deprivation !
- Skiers stuck in dead end valleys, night closing in,
hours of hard work ahead: either walking up mountain back
to piste at top of mountain (to reach piste to valley) or
the same but hours skiing in increasing dark through raw
forest. Then dogs start howling. Well, back behind walls
& at lower altitudes everyone tells you it must have
been valley dogs. When you'r alone up the top of a mountain
all people have left 2 hours ago, darker by the minute,
you'r entitled to a different guess! Dogs ? maybe. &
then down, Passengers & Drivers separated &
clueless of whereabouts, should rescue services be called,
what would they find in the dark, what would it Cost ?!. No
mobile phones then (& coverage even now far from
overall).
- Lack of hotel rooms
- Can't book pensions often for 1 night.
- Never enough single rooms.
- Idiots who
even half way up one mountain then down the next hunting
for rooms, argue Demand their absolute "Right" to a single
room, where no rooms single or double are to be had, (&
where if any singles are, usually best if Drivers get them
to ensure a good sleep & safer drive home next
day).
- Can't find where booked pensions are.
- Can't drive to B&B 'cos too steep narrow & icy
! (yes, even too steep for this author's previous powerful
car, which had All of: 4 snow chains, winter tyres, 4wheel
drive, divide by 2transmission reduction, & turbo -
still too steep / slippery (well even if I got up there,
was I going to find space to turn, how was I going to get
other party cars up there ? Would I have to spend hours
moving multiple car loads of people skis & luggage all
up the mountain in my one car ? where would we leave all
the other cars ? What if snowed again overnight ?
- Hotel rooms stolen by club members not booked on the
trip.
- Stuck without chains, can't get up
- Driver who insisted on using
his junk car, & thus having other drivers with better
cars leave there's in Munich, stuck up top
without chains, he &
passengers can't get down icy road
- Broken/stolen skis boots sticks
- People who forget equipment money & passports to
rent equipment,
- People who tell drivers they `must' be driven back up
mountain fast to return gear before shop closes, or `must'
return early to Munich (no chance!)
- Driver turned back at the border, 'cos of no passport,
& passenger left with no driver.
- Car impounded by border police, sudden extra passenger
& skis to squeeze into whichever cars if any remain
behind the impounded one.
- Passenger
claiming Sunday morning to have no money to pay hotel or
driver's petrol money. Pretence kept up all the way to
Munich, till driver said he intended to leave that
passenger's new skis locked on roof, & auction them off
down the club next Friday to raise petrol money.
Miraculously money to pay for hotel & petrol was then
found ;-)
Top Of Page
Years ago, we were part of a club that died. The grey box
below was to deter various non skier committee members etc,
who used to periodically dump ignorant criticism on us. A
list of some disasters we've
survived was written to show them how clueless of issues they
were, to encourage them Not to push their ignorant opinions.
We're rid of those people now, but stories of some disasters can still entertain over a beer.
Each time there's a skiing problem, one receives a
few un-solicited & usually un-informed comments
from non skiers who seem to all too often make the
ignorant assumption (sub-conscious or conscious) that
organising a ski trip should be based on similar
principles to those used to organise other events
most of which are of a far more trivial nature, EG
trip to a Munich restaurant. Non skiers often don't
bother asking nearly enough questions before issuing
their frequently un-informed opinions, & it gets
tedious trying to politely explain the many things
they hadn't realised or bothered to ask. It's of
course possible for non skiers, & skiers of
limited experience to have useful ideas, & for
those we're grateful, but please ask _lots_ of
questions before you allow an idea to grow to an
opinion formed in ignorance, that could likely cause
annoyance if thrust un-asked on Ski Organisers.
-
Get Experience:
- Learn to ski (any type of ski) ! - Your
perceptions may change.
- If you've tried Langlauf & weren't
scared ...
- Try down hill, its faster & more
dangerous,
- Try Ski Tour. - sometime slower than down
hill, can be more dangerous though.
- Go as a skier on lots of trips.
- Graduate from Bus trips where it's easy
& all Must conform, to private car trips,
where there's more to co-ordinate &
organise, & accommodation to find etc.
- Organise some Ski Trips, start on 1 day
trips, easier.
- Organise complete ski weekends, needing to
find accommodation up & down the valley
etc.
- Organise beginners trips
- Keep doing it for 10 to 20 years for a
club. Remember Ski
Organisers mistakes (yours & others),
logistical contingencies & accidents &
problems your skiers have been caught out by in
the mountains, & learn from them, & try
to plan to avoid them etc.
- Encourage other Skiers to both help out on
big trips & also organise other trips
- ... And now the hard bit ... ;-)
- Sigh when non skiers dump unsolicited
opinions on you about ski matters !
- A few of us are experienced Ski Organisers who have done
most or all the above list.
Ski trips, particularly down hill/tour & full
weekend trips are much more complex & potentially
dangerous & need much more forward planning than
simple club events such as the trivial booking of a
meal in a Munich Restaurant, that many experience as
a club `Event', that the ignorant sometimes
[un]consciously draw parallels with, when forming
opinions on how all club events should be organised
& who is `entitled' to what.
Non skiers would be wiser to ask a Lot more
questions before forming an opinion, or worse,
pushing their ignorant un-solicited opinions on
experienced ski Organisers.
|
- Contact Ski Organisers well
in advance for weekend trips (deposits often required).
- All routes & destinations subject to snow conditions
and car seats available, snow & road conditions, & Ski Organisers decisions.
- Events can be relocated, postponed or cancelled if
necessary without notice, for instance due to snow or traffic
conditions, lack of enough participants or transport, or
indisposition of Ski
Organisers.
- Check your e-mail, pay attention to announcements at the
Friday. Stammtisch, and always confirm booking with the Ski Organiser beforehand.
- Don't just turn up (unless the Ski Organiser specifically advertises
that is acceptable), as there may well be no space for
you.
- If you must cancel, formally cancel direct with the Ski Organiser so he/she knows.
No-shows who muck up our car & or hotel sharing plans are
not welcome on subsequent trips, Ski Organisers mention names of no
shows to fellow Ski
Organisers.
- Weekend trips often require advance booking and deposits
paid, which we & your friends drink at your expense, if
you fail to show up without adequate warning.
- Events are organised by volunteers. Participation is
entirely at your own risk and on your own responsibility.
Organisers, drivers, & fellow skiers etc disclaim All
responsibility - if you do not accept that, do not come.
- Top Of Page
|
(click for
larger)
